Of Hinduism and Mangalore’s pubs

I came across a blogpost by a self-proclaimed Hindu nationalist on the “real facts behind the Mangalore pub attacks.” I wondered, for a short while, whether to link to it and give it more publicity than it deserves. But, it was so outrageous, and so provocative, that I can’t stop myself. So, here it is. (edit: It’s not there any more. He removed it!! :-P ) Now, where do I start?

He says there is an orchestrated attempt to “seduce, entrap and convert innocent Hindu girls”. Hmm. Ok. Then, he says the jehadis want to flick girls from our religion. Flick? WTF? Does Mr. Kamat think we are pencils or erasers that some can flick and use? Sorry. No. I will do exactly as I please. I will make friends with people from other religions because I choose to see their personality and not their religion. I will go out to a pub because I want to relax and have some fun. What I do with my life is my business. Who the hell is some random hooligan on the road to “save” me?

He goes on to say a lot of crap and spread communal hatred against members of the Islamic community. I don’t think they are worth rebutting because he is not worth the effort. But, what hurts me is the attempt of a few fringe outfits like this Sri Rama Sene to usurp the name of my religion to preach what Hinduism does not preach. I am a Hindu. My religion does not preach intolerent. My religion does not condone violence to uphold or protect its culture. My religion does not ask people to shun contact with all other religions to preserve its sanctity.

I am a Hindu, but I do not support this criminal conduct in the name of Hinduism. I do not support the Sri rama Sene, the Bajrang Dal or even the BJP, because they have irreversibly maligned the name of the religion in which I grew up. My religion taught me to love. My upbringing in a Hindu mission school taught me to respect others’ faiths and beliefs and not try to convert. My conscience taught me believe in the inherent freedom of the individual to do what he/she deems right. My study of women’s studies taught me that women are disadvantaged. My sense of justice taught me to fight for that equality in reality.

When I read people like Kamat saying women must be protected from other faiths because we will be brainwashed and converted, it violates my sense of justice. It provokes me into declaring that I am not a piece of cattle to protect and feed, and exploit when required. Women have a certain intelligence that nobody can dispute. They can decide for themselves what’s right and what’s not. They don’t need protection. But yes, what they do need is understanding. They need trust. Above all, they need equality and respect.

Let’s make one thing clear. Attacks such as the one in Mangalore are condemnable, irrespective of the religion of the perpetrators or the motive behind it. Using religion to justify such behaviour is unpardonable. Blaming the attack on decadence or on the victims themselves is even less tolerable. Some day, I would like to live in an India where I will not be judged by my gender, my religion, the colour of my skin or the caste into which I was born. Will I ever see an India like that? At least before I die?

63 Comments

  • I think you are missing the bigger picture. The bigger picture is how media ( including darlings like IBN, NDTV ) have become tools of the west to suppress or hype the news based on their agenda, most anti-Indian if not anti-Hindu. Here is one good example.

    The Real Talibans of India
    http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=8106&SKIN=M

    Most of what you say is true and sweeping. Even agreed. But let me also parse some of them and add some perspective.

    ::the jehadis want to flick girls from our religion. Flick? WTF? Does Mr. Kamat think we are pencils or erasers that some can flick and use? Sorry. No.

    Yes, yes madam. Not just women. But men too. Have you heard of kidnappings? With their marauding mentality they have done it with ease in Pakistan, Bagladesh and J&K. It’s spreading elsewhere. If not terror they will be suave in achieving this. There is a history of women disappearing in these jehadi joints. Check this out http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=8108&SKIN=B

    :: My religion does not preach intolerent.

    Also Tolerance cannot and should not tolerate Intolerance. Per Gita inaction is NOT a choice.

    :: When I read people like Kamat saying women must be protected from other faiths because we will be brainwashed and converted, it violates my sense of justice.

    Madam, from your profile I see that you are a capable one. But millions are unlike you. They are too innocent to understand the dangers from Jehadis. At any cost we cannot let them become female suicide bombers.

    :: Let’s make one thing clear. Attacks such as the one in Mangalore are condemnable, irrespective of the religion of the perpetrators or the motive

    As you see from the link that I provided earlier you see the media condemns when it’s only Hindus doing this even when they miss the bigger picture. Recall Barkha Dutt aiding and abetting terrorism.

    Most leftist and liberal bloggers make opinions that are palatable and shortsighted. So let there be bloggers who see other side of the coin too. Otherwise what’s the difference between Barkha Dutt and one sided bloggers. Let readers determine where Truth lies given all the information.

    Thank you

    Kiran, maybe we are too liberal or leftist, but we certainly have our heads on our shoulders. And if indeed men and women are being forcibly converted, it’s our job to ensure that any such complaints are taken seriously and appropriate action is taken. What we cannot do, or SHOULD not do is to go around attacking girls in pubs, raping women of other religions or generally behaving like hooligans. It’s helping nobody’s cause. If you notice, most of the time, it’s the women who are attacked, by the Taliban in Afghanistan, by the Bajrang Dal in Orissa, by the Ram Sena in Mangalore. It doesn’t seem to be about religion any more. These people are merely using religion to intimidate the population on behaving the way they want them to. When will we understand this?

  • YES Amrutha you will. I am going through a similar hell. I just can’t believe this. Today my post is also a reaction to a very provocative Blog (but I did not link it) and some comments (which I did not publish).
    I love this post. Precise and passionate – and I think each of us must make a noise and speak against this. We can’t ignore these voices which defend these attacks – because they are heard in many home even around us- people talking about girls now learning a lesson (YES! We have such geniuses.)… let’s all speak out.

    Thanks IHM. I still have hope, and fighting to hold on to it.

  • tapan wrote:

    read http://www.haindavakeralam.com ,www.bengalunderattack.com ,www.citizenwarrior.com this citizen is from west…must read these 3 if you are really truth seeking….kannada rakshana vedike ransacked IT office in banglore few years ago..do you know it? why ?obvious media ?if you really want to know the what will happen if conversion ,love jyhad goes on…study kerala politics ..kerala best example ….carefully…..leave alone going to pub,girls will be asked to stay in burqa…and have you heard a debate in media fullfledged about burqa? NEVER..MEDIA DOES IT..
    even i dont approve moral policing..
    but any day i will go with this …than nofreddom,beard.burqa etc..

  • tapan wrote:

    read book harvesting souls by a.shourie and read http://www.citizenwarrior.con and other releated to it…

  • Awesome Amrutha…. I loved this post…

    And you know, me and my sis – we were talking about going to Hard Rock Cafe tomorrow and the first thought that came to our minds was – “Not tomorrow! Let’s wait till this dies down… I don’t want to get caught in something like what happened in Mangalore”
    Sigh… there goes one more option down the drain… the freedom to walk into a pub/cafe and drink whatever we want to… and it necessarily doesn’t have to be alcohol…
    Sometimes, we just go to enjoy the ambiance and the music

    Sigh! It’s sad we have to take such brainless hooligans into consideration before we go out for a drink.

  • Amruta, that site is almost like a joke. They take offense at everything.

    That said, this incident has hurt me a lot.

  • Amruta, I share your sentiments as well. Especially, the part about “Women have a certain intelligence that nobody can dispute.” We should be able to enjoy our lives without someone making all the decisions for us. We need to work together and change the perspective of what it means to be a modern day Hindu women. There are other ways of protecting our religion like doing like defeating poverty, working for social reform, ensuring proper education for all, etc. We do not need to resort to violence.

    Exactly my point. But, can it happen? Ever?

  • Amruta, I share your sentiments as well. Especially, the part about “Women have a certain intelligence that nobody can dispute.” We should be able to enjoy our lives without someone making all the decisions for us. We need to work together and change the perspective of what it means to be a modern day Hindu women. There are other ways of protecting our religion like defeating poverty, working for social reform, ensuring proper education for all, etc. We do not need to resort to violence.

  • [...] Amrutha has a post on the topic,but the link she provided seemed disturbing.Reading more on the thread,I stumbled upon articles in OutlookIndia and IndiaToday,which persuaded me to have a look into the matter,from their viewpoint.Sharing some thoughts. [...]

  • Dear God!

    I just read the lackwit’s blog post and am reeling in shock. I want to comment on your blog post but am in no position to do so.

    Will just thank you for showing him the finger. Much needed gesture.

  • tapan wrote:

    read this from american
    jihad has come to india
    http://comments.americanthinker.com/read/42323/778792.html

  • [...] of freedom of speech, an angry blog post by Amrutha provided me with the link to this post by one Deepak Kamat. Kamat writes of an Islamist conspiracy [...]

  • Here’s my finger too :-)
    Came here from @vimoh

  • Madam,

    I understand this. And Kamat’s language does not mach the sophistication of our enemies. But my point is that it’s getting way too much coverage than required. So much so that the Christian missionary brigade in collusion with Western media is continuing on with it’s agenda of ‘hey here is one more evil in Indian society. CONVERT THEM!”. Otherwise how come a simple incident takes international proportions? ISI and Jehadi elements feel vindicated “hey, it’s taliban everywhere”. By equating ram sene and such fringe elements of society to taliban we are immesely diluting what Taliban is or highly exagerrating what RS is. This approach is detrimental to Indian polity and direction of the nation. The former is infamous was Thousands of BEHEADINGS and RS is just thrashing few girls, not even 1 is dead. -1 is not same as -1,000,000 just because they are both negative. The Rajasthan CM, K’taka CM and NCW all have uttered something that sort of makes one think there’s more to this. People are just losing perspective and words like “taliban” are used with reckless abandon.

    How can you even THINK of justifying what these people have done? No matter what conspiracy is hatched, as you allege, the solution is not to go around behaving like a goonda. It’s about freedom. I would not convert, but if someone else WANTS to, they must be free to do so. I don’t see how the BJP, the VHP or random outfits like the Sri Rama Sene are involved in this PERSONAL decision.

  • valluvar selvan wrote:

    Dear Ms Amrutha, the so called protectors of ‘Hinduism’ have many faces.Mr K.R. Malkani as the editor of ‘Organiser’ had justified the great Rajput warrior clan offering their girls to Akbar as a means to protect and preserve our dharma or whatever.It all depends on what they perceive as serving their clan/class interests.It sounds odd to say that they become foreigners because of embracing a foreign religion.We have the knack of assimilating them.Local converts become another inseparable part of the caste society that is called the hindu community.
    Foreigners become another upper caste and some new myth is created to assign them some place in the hindu social order. The syrian christians and the goan christians are no less casteist than the pure hindus who are very fond of claiming that they are the most tolerant people in the world.
    Religiosity like patriotism is something found useful to assert one’s separate identity,or to boastfully claim superiority over others. When they feel their privileges are threatened they become very patriotic and very fond of their religion. This has been the case with our country men at all times.

  • tapan wrote:

    read this and also learn the political .social,economical aspects of kerala and you will come to know what will happen to your state in just 30 years…..and your religion…http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/03/jihad_has_come_to_india.html

  • Have some perspective here. Missionaries, Jehadis and their accomplices who are posting here with ‘liberal’ handles, don’t lose sight of bigger picture and go on overdrive when RS folks are thrashing girls.

    :: Rajput warrior clan offering their girls to Akbar

    WHEN was that? 500 years ago? YES

    ISLAMIC TERRORISTS SLAUGHTERING HINDUS IN THE NAME OF JEHAD

    WHEN was that? 500 years ago? YES
    WHEN was that? EVEN TODAY ? YES

    :: embracing a foreign religion

    EMBRACING? what % is that? Are you too afraid to use the words – enticement, forceful, coerced, induced, deceived etc., Do you know how Nagaland became 90% christian, Do you know how Bengal, Assam are becoming 90% muslim in millions of districts? Do you have any sense of what’s going on in the name ‘religious freedom’? How it has been subverted to the very detriment of National security? Do you know “Nagalim for Christ” and such movements apart from ISI ‘war of thousand cuts’ against India?

    ::We have the knack of assimilating them?

    Really? Assimilitaing or getting assasinated by them? Do you know what happened in J&K? 30,000 Hindus have been slaughtered and another 3,00,000 Hindus are driven away who are living as refugees within their own country. Do you know what is happening in all the districts bordering Bangladesh, they are all now rabid mini-pakistans now. Same with several districts within Kerala. And that virus is spreading to Mangalore. So yes, these RS folks did not do what they did in PR friendly way ( like missionaries and Jehadis do ) but that does not hide the fact what is happening there is a security threat to India.

    ::part of the caste society that is called the hindu community

    Caste which is a British construct is an all-india feature that affects every religion within India. Just google the words “caste muslim” or “caste christian” and you will know. There are brahmin christians looking down upon dalit christians. So stop fixating this caste crap to Hinduism to further drive your agenda.

    ::hindus who are very fond of claiming that they are the most tolerant people in the world

    Look at the world today and decide for yourself. Christianity gave the world the Inquisition, Witchcraft, Slavery, Colonialism, Two World Wars – another is waiting to happen… Islam has given Conquest, Terrorism, and Jihad. Both are today tied in deadly embrace over the globe for supremacy. Compared to these two any religion is better off.

    THIS IS NOT ABOUT RELIGION.
    THIS IS ABOUT THE VERY NATION CALLED “BHARAT”

    Sorry to be harsh, but “Bharat” does NOT belong solely to the Hindus. Muslims, Christians, Sikhs and other minorities are as Indian as Hindus are. If being a Hindu means having to hate other religion, I choose to call myself agnostic. And, for God’s sake, STOP calling Islam and Christianity foreign religions. Their believers are as Indian as you and me. Hindus DO NOT have the exclusive right over what you choose to call Bharat. Kiran, I find your comments more and more divisive and communal. One more comment spreading intolerance or religious animosity and I will be forced to delete it. If it continues unstopped, I will also not hesitate to blacklist you. I believe in freedom of speech, but that freedom must not hurt others’ religious beliefs.

  • :: “Bharat” does NOT belong solely to the Hindus.

    Where did I say that? NO right minded Hindu says that, simply because a Hindu is one who accepts Bharat as his maatrubhoomi and someone who lives dharmic way of life irrespective of what God they pray to. Let us not define ourselves by what British or Eurocentrists have defined us. That is a wrong premise to begin with. By our definition all Hindus, muslims, christians, sikhs, jains, buddhists, jews who are loyal to Bharat and NOT to Vatican or Mecca. The latter are those Hindus have problem with and are ones focussed on India’s vivisection.

    ::If being a Hindu means having to hate other religion, I choose to call myself agnostic.

    You have got it all twisted. “Hindu means having to hate other religion” ? where do you get these ideas from? From missionary or Jehadi propoganda material?
    You are going on a tangent for no reason.

    ::And, for God’s sake, STOP calling Islam and Christianity foreign religions.

    It was valluvar selvan who said that. Islam and Christianity are foreign religions only for those followers whose loyalty lies with Vatican or Mecca. Even that is OK as long as Indian security interests are not at conflict. Most muslims and Christians are Indians first, their religious affiliation comes next. Christians fighting for “Nagalim for Christ” and muslims supporting ISI’s war against India ( like SIMI and such ) are not Indians at all. Those are the ones that Hindus ( broader definition) have problem with

    :: Hindus DO NOT have the exclusive right over what you choose to call Bharat.

    Again where did I say that? Bharat is our name for India.

    ::Kiran, I find your comments more and more divisive and communal.

    No, No! You refuse to see the truth. Or the truth with perspective. In your eyes only Hindus can be communal because you can condemn them ( and rightly so ) and get away with it. But you are not brave enough or don’t have the heart to do the same when it comes to rabid fundamentalism from Christian missionaries or Islamic Terrorists. Cowardice in other forms!

    :: One more comment spreading intolerance or religious animosity and I will be forced to delete it. If it continues unstopped, I will also not hesitate to blacklist you. I believe in freedom of speech, but that freedom must not hurt others’ religious beliefs.

    Religious belief at the cost of national security?
    Religious belief that harbors intolerance like ‘My god is the only God and all others are false, so let’s convert them’?
    Religious belief that indulges in ‘war of thousand cuts against India and Hindus must be eliminated at all cost and original Mughalistan must be established”?
    Worse Religious belief that’s actually subverted by Indian politics?

    Go ahead blacklist me. There’s no difference between Burkha Dutt and yet another liberal blogger displaying cowardice!

  • ::I believe in freedom of speech, but that freedom must not hurt others’ religious beliefs.

    I believe we both are condemning RS action but our presentation and perspectives are different. I am reasoning why RS did what it did and intoducing the bigger picture here for narrow minded liberal thinkers. It’s actually dishonesty and cowardice in action. If my words are percieved as bigotry then good luck when real bigotry hurts you. Most Indians don’t care until it affects them personally. May be when your daughter or sister gets enticed by Jehadi Romeos to become female suicide bombers it will change your perspective. It’s easy to be an arm chair critic in distant Chennai.

    As a native of Mangalore I know how I feel and how my neighbors and friends feel. They are not complaining about RS much as they care for their daughters.

    I am done here! Blacklisted too!
    Goodluck and Goodbye!

  • i solely agree to what you’re saying.

    http://ddsos.org/2009/02/02/mangalore-pubs-female-bashing/

    this is what i had to say as well.

    and to people like Kiran P Above, i have nothing to say!

  • Just a quick note for people who are worried about increasing ‘forigen’ population,people don not convert out of love or faith to Allah or Christ,but for food shelter and security..They convert to get out of caste strings etc etc etc are many reasons..Yes,even i don’t like india becoming whole of Muslims or Christians,so forced conversion should be checkd-IN LEGAL WAYS..Raping and buring nuns,trashing women etc etc is the not the answer…

    Sorry for commenting out of scope Amrutha..You wrote a great post,with solid thoughts..I read every post of yours..All of them are simply brillinat..Keep writing..Good day..

    Thanks Nimmy. :-)

  • Hi Amrutha,
    If I were you, I would have politely ignored Kiran P. There is very little to be gained by arguing with religious fanatics. Religious fanaticism is the blight that taints all the world’s major religions, excluding Buddhism. Kiran P probably has a lot more in common with fanatical Muslims than he has with moderate, liberal Hindus like you and me. If Kiran bothers to look closely in the mirror, he will see the face of an Islamic terrorist staring back at him. Fanatics are not obsessed with religion, they are obsessed with controlling other people’s lives by using force. Kiran’s religion is not Hinduism, its fanaticism. He is as far away from achieving salvation and nirvana as any Taliban fighter that he has so much in common with.
    Peace
    Preeti

    As I explained to Nimmy, I wouldn’t have reacted had she accused ME of being a bitch. But, when people start branding entire communities and religions, it gets impossible to ignore

  • [...] in Chennai writes: My religion does not condone violence to uphold or protect its culture. My religion does not ask [...]

  • clueless_mangalorean wrote:

    Kiran p seems to a classic pseudo-hindu. There are many like that roaming in Mangalore.

    They say caste is british construct, but themselves never give it up or acknowledge its wrongdoings.
    They would talk about conversions but when it comes to helping poor hindus
    they shy away saying they don’t have money.

    Most of Mangalore pseudo-hindus were worried that it got so much press rather then the fate of the beaten woman.

    My town was once know for its education, not sure how these Talibans took over it.

    BTW i have heard even more fantastic stories then those of deepak kamath !!

  • Very well said. I was outraged when these criminals used the name of Hinduism to justify their actions. Then there were some people that supported them. I don’t really understand them.

  • Amrutha, do not feed the trolls- it is like wrestling with a pig- you get muddy, the pig enjoys it.

    People convert out of their free will- the same free will that allowed their ancestors call themselves “Hindus” and mingle their gods with the pantheon. If people have a problem with conversion, they should not convert. Similarly with pubs too.
    Yes it is a terrorist act- one more insidious than a foreign act of terror, because in this case the government is a willing accomplice. And in an atmosphere of fear only hate flourishes.

  • Deepak Kamath wrote:

    THe Mangalore pub was nothing but an illegal dance bar where a nanganach was going on.

    So if you want to be drugged and paraded naked, is it ok for you, Amrutha?

  • Deepak Kamath wrote:

    For more details, read my latest post on http://www.greathindu.com

    If you don’t believe me, ask the NCW (National Commission for Women). Even it has demanded a ban on the pub because they were licenced to serve only food.

    Look before you leap and only chew what you can digest before performing a character assassination, ok Amrutha.

    Samasatti.

    So, you decide to take the law into your hands and beat the women up? I don’t get the logic. My safety is MY problem. Not any random individual’s. I criticised your opinion. That’s not character assassination. If you think so, that’s your problem.

  • Bravo! Well said. I don’t think that being Hindu is compatible with this behaviour or this rhetoric: it horrifies me.

  • Deepak Kamat wrote:

    SO Amrutha, you expect me to sit like an eunuch when women are drugged and paraded naked? You expect me to twiddle my thumb while there are illegal dance bars in my area exploiting women. After all, we are not supposed to take law in our own hands. Excuse me, you are brainwashed by the Euro-centric approach. As far as my Hindu nature is concerned, it is my dharma to protect dharma. I will do it with you, without you and despite you.

  • Deepak Kamat wrote:

    If I see a woman in danger, it is my dharma to rescue her.

    The law is an ass. For me, dharma is important any day.

    And if the woman does not think she is in danger? If she actually WANTS to go out for a drink? You don’t think that matters, do you? Because your perceived Dharma is more important than freedom of speech and behaviour. That’s not how it works in modern and free India. If men are out to rape women, condemn the MEN. Don’t advise women to stay indoors. If men can’t control themselves, it’s their problem. Stop victimising the victim. Mr. Kamat, please stay away if you can’t take criticism. I will continue to write what I believe in. I don’t have to justify anything. As for prostitution, you may want to know this. Even a prostitute doesn’t deserve to be beaten up or molested. If the dance bar was illegal, file a police complaint. And yes, i did brand you as a fanatic. You are that. I called the ones who molested the women as hooligans. So, you admit you are one of them? That’s not character assassination. That’s an opinion on another. I stand by what I said. Today and forever.

  • Deepak Kamat wrote:

    The Amrutha dogma

    Dogma: So, you decide to take the law into your hands and beat the women up?
    Reality: Why did you assume that I did it? I only said that the pub was nothing but an illegal dance bar where girls were solicited by clients. Such a place in the heart of the city is not good. Are you supporting prostitution, Amrutha?

    Dogma: I don’t get the logic.
    Reality: It is not about logic. It is about emotion. It is about heart. It is about sentiments. Have you killed your heart? Don’t you feel what happens when your sister is exploited by hooligans?

    Dogma: My safety is MY problem.
    Reality: Who cares for you? I don’t even know you.

    Dogma: Not any random individual’s. I criticised your opinion.
    Reality: What opinion? Are you supporting illegal dance bars and prostitution?

    Dogma: That’s not character assassination. If you think so, that’s your problem.

    Reality: You branded me as a hooligan and that too without knowing me. If that is not character assassination, I shudder to think what is?

  • Deepak Kamat wrote:

    Amrutha dogma: If the dance bar was illegal, file a police complaint.

    Reality: Ha Ha Ha. How do you think they were running an illegal dance bar? You are very naive. Goodbye. All is fair in love and war.

  • Deepak Kamat wrote:

    THE AMRUTHA DOGMA
    Dogma: I came across a blogpost by a self-proclaimed Hindu nationalist on the “real facts behind the Mangalore pub attacks.”
    Reality: I am not a Hindu Nationalist. Read my blog very closely. I consider myself as an Hindu Internationalist.

    Dogma: I wondered, for a short while, whether to link to it and give it more publicity than it deserves.
    Reality: I don’t need anonymous bloggers like you to give me publicity. I am already famous.

    Dogma: But, it was so outrageous, and so provocative, that I can’t stop myself. So, here it is. Now, where do I start?
    Reality: it’s not here. Because I deleted it and updated it. Life is about change and movement.

    Dogma: Then, he says the jehadis want to flick girls from our religion. Flick? WTF? Does Mr. Kamat think we are pencils or erasers that some can flick and use? Sorry. No.
    Reality: Why do you take it personally. Did anybody use you?

    Dogma: I will do exactly as I please. I will make friends with people from other religions because I choose to see their personality and not their religion.
    Reality: So how many friends from other religions have you seen? Seems as if you are a sucker for pseudosecular propaganda.

    Dogma: I will go out to a pub because I want to relax and have some fun.
    Reality: Will you also go to an illegal dance bar where women are drugged and exploited by men? That’s exactly what your oh-so-secular Mangalore pub was.

    Dogma: What I do with my life is my business. Who the hell is some random hooligan on the road to “save” me?
    Reality: Again, why do you take it personally. But if my sister or my loved one was involved, I would have killed the other guy. Now don’t ask me to be logical. Because everything is fair in love and war.

    Dogma: He goes on to say a lot of crap and spread communal hatred against members of the Islamic community.
    Reality: So WTC 9/11 was crap. So bin Laden is secular. So is Mullah Omar.

    Dogma: I don’t think they are worth rebutting because he is not worth the effort.
    Reality: Then why did you quote me in the first place. You thought I was a sitting duck for my ranting.

    Dogma: But, what hurts me is the attempt of a few fringe outfits like this Sri Rama Sene to usurp the name of my religion to preach what Hinduism does not preach.
    Reality: Preaching. Rama Sene is very practical. It does not preach like a Church padre or Mullah ranting.

    Dogma: I am a Hindu. My religion does not preach intolerent. My religion does not condone violence to uphold or protect its culture. My religion does not ask people to shun contact with all other religions to preserve its sanctity.
    Reality: What if the other person declares a jehad and vows to kill you? Didn’t Krishna say: Arise Arjuna, fight. It’s your dharma to protect the weak? Which Hinduism are you talking about?

    Dogma: I am a Hindu, but I do not support this criminal conduct in the name of Hinduism.
    Reality: It is not a criminal activity. An illegal dance bar was operating and women were being exploited. The Rama Sena did a stellar service by closing the illegal dance bar.

    Dogma: I do not support the Sri rama Sene, the Bajrang Dal or even the BJP, because they have irreversibly maligned the name of the religion in which I grew up.
    Reality: Media propaganda and reality are two different things. If India is alive, if Hinduism is alive, it is so largely due to the Sangh Parivar. Or else, these Jehadis and Missionaries would have finished us.

    First Truth from Amrutha: My religion taught me to love. My upbringing in a Hindu mission school taught me to respect others’ faiths and beliefs and not try to convert. My conscience taught me believe in the inherent freedom of the individual to do what he/she deems right.
    Reality: I agree with you here.

    Dogma: My study of women’s studies taught me that women are disadvantaged.
    Reality: No Hinduism does not consider women as disadvantaged. She is Durga. She is Kali. She is strong.

    Dogma: My sense of justice taught me to fight for that equality in reality.
    Reality: That’s what the Sena did. They fought for the disadvantaged women.

    Dogma: When I read people like Kamat saying women must be protected from other faiths because we will be brainwashed and converted, it violates my sense of justice.
    Reality: It’s not my saying. It’s not a fairy tale. Several such cases have been reported. I am a journo. I know this.

    Dogma: It provokes me into declaring that I am not a piece of cattle to protect and feed, and exploit when required.
    Reality: Again, you are taking it personally. Does that mean I should allow women to be exploited right in front of my eyes.

    Dogma: Women have a certain intelligence that nobody can dispute. They can decide for themselves what’s right and what’s not. They don’t need protection.
    Reality: Are you a superwoman? I know only one Superwoman in India. And she is Madame Pasta Ben. She is imported from Italy. Have you practiced martial arts?

    Dogma: But yes, what they do need is understanding. They need trust. Above all, they need equality and respect.
    Reality: And you find it in illegal dance bars where their rates are fixed. Grow up, silly girl.

    Dogma: Let’s make one thing clear. Attacks such as the one in Mangalore are condemnable, irrespective of the religion of the perpetrators or the motive behind it.
    Reality: So do you mean to say that illegal dance bars should be allowed to continue?

    Dogma: Using religion to justify such behaviour is unpardonable.
    Reality: It is not a question of religion. It is a question of exploitation of women.

    Dogma: Blaming the attack on decadence or on the victims themselves is even less tolerable.
    Reality: Whom should you blame here?

    Dogma: Some day, I would like to live in an India where I will not be judged by my gender, my religion, the colour of my skin or the caste into which I was born. Will I ever see an India like that? At least before I die?
    Reality: It’s already here and now. Just put an end to the jehadis and evangelists who are all set for a demographic invasion. And everything will fall in place.

  • Dear Amrutha,

    I wrote five different replies to the demented Mr Kamat and deleted them all. The man is beyond reason.

    I seriously suggest TOTAL comment moderation. The man is a bulletin board nightmare. He hardly sounds educated. A journalist no less, wow!

    If the man feels the need to reply to your post, he may do so on his fucking ugly blog. No need for you to sully your pages with this poison.

    Mr Kamat seems to have no respect for women, or Hinduism, or even basic humanity. He also seems to be past reasoning. There are some kinds of people you can reason with. He is not that type.

    I don’t believe he even knows what Hindu or Islamic or any scriptures say. If he does, he is deliberately misinterpreting them to defame the religion he so claims to love.

    This guy is just an attention-seeker. Ignore him. I am sure you have a good life and are doing more good to the world than this man ever will.

    Over and out. :)

  • @vimoh
    I am wondering vimoh how can you read the full comment made by this guy called Deepak! After reading first few illogical arguments like .. “it’s not here. Because I deleted it and updated it. Life is about change and movement.” I was sure that this guy is coward , hypocrite and totally unsure of what he is talking about . He is not even confident on his own opinion to keep his post intact !.

    @amrutha
    nice post. i agree these activities are condemnable. Also these people should be condemned on their face and should be made face to face with reality and morality !

  • I'd rather be anonymous wrote:

    Succinct and to the point. We need more people like you to speak out against the hate-filled extremism that’s taken control of our country’s politics and, now, civil life. I genuinely believe there are enough liberal, open-minded Indians like us to make a difference by participating in the governance of our country (namely, voting and taking to the streets).

    Thank you! :-)

  • Mr Kamat,

    That’s interesting. Because you don’t sound like you know what Hinduism means. Never mind that.

    And about Mr Modi. Can’t say I am surprised. :) But why should I jump into your little pool of happiness?

    Take care.

    Sorry Vimoh. I deleted his comments. Couldn’t tolerate that crap any more. Am sure you will agree.

  • Deepak Kamat-utra is a delusional idiot who writes about Hinduism in the day and whacks off watching desibaba at night. Like the others of his clan belonging to SriRam Sene. They are frustrated that the closest they could get to girls in their miserable teenage years was when they could smell the chameli ka tel in their head in the queue for the school bus. Now they don’t want us to go a step further. Jackasses… I’m going to a pub now with my group. Do what you can Kamat-utra. Narendra Modi will release your Mast Ram book by this month. Hahha.

  • Mr. Kamat,
    How is that you are having the entire footage of the Mangalore pub attack? It was reported by pro-Hindutva websites/blogs that it was NDTV cameraman who recorded all that. Are you the one who video graphed the entire attack and supplied the footage to national news channels? If yes, why did you keep on filming the attack on hapless girls and didn’t help them? As you claim to have read all the Hindu scriptures, I ask you: is this what is taught in Hinduism?

    Naveen, don’t ask him. He will spew some more venom. I’d rather not hear all that bullshit.

  • Amrutha, came here from Vimoh. Why do you even entertain Kamath? And @Kamath, I too sir, have grown up on puranas and vedas and read all the scriptures. If in your ignorance you do not imbibe what exactly they are planning to say sir, what is the point in preaching to you?

    There is a mallu saying which goes ‘No point in chanting Vedas to a buffalo.’ Im reminded of that when Mr Kamath says he had read the scriptures :)

    Welcome to my blog Surya. I finally went ahead and blacklisted that guy. I couldn’t take that Hindutva crap any more.

  • :) lol..You are being stalked honey..Nevermind,just an attention seeker…

  • More than happy. Your blog is your living room. You have every right to blacklist him. Good job.

    Except that now I look like I am talking to nobody. :)

  • The guys who talk about “Indian culture’ are actually trying to protect their feudal lifestyle where they want to own our body, mind and soul -especially the women. They use the name of other religions to beat up their own women… could not be more cowardly.

  • [...] is that, the ruling BJP government, apparently did nothing and also backed them. Then came this post, by blogger Amrutha, which points to another post which justifies the Mangalore incident. It seems, [...]

  • came here from nita’s. but i think this blog is going more hot-headed than nita’s.

    i would like to make certain comments myself and believe me: i am a hindu and proud of it.

    what certain people here forget is the objective of abrahamic faiths (islam/christianity/judaism). their faith tells them that only abrahamic faiths are right and all other followers are heathens, destined to rot in hell forever! haha…what a joke! they can’t even come to a consensus amongst themselves and keep on killing each other. what great faiths to follow!

    abrahamic faiths, especially islam, therefore truly believe that it is their duty to convert as many heathens to the true faith (imagine goat cutting in your plush toilet during eid…). hence for them and their competitor christianity, any type of coercion/trick/foolery/jugglery/dirty means are all ok to convert as many of the placid stock into their own violent ones!…and here it is a central government sponsored and backed effort, what with all sops for minorities in a majority hindu state where hindus themselves get nothing!

    if some ram senes, bajrang dals, vhps, shiv sainiks are therefore protesting all that, i am happy because they at least are keeping the bugles ringing in the ears of this reticent kumbhakarna (hindus). over a period of time the hindus would step out of their shells in bulk and start retaliating…before half the country becomes islamised and the other half christianised.

    india retains its fabric of independance only because of its bulk hindus. otherwise we should be cutting and chopping each other by now!

    i prefer remaining a HINDU!

    I have no probs with you remaining Hindu. What I object to is the unnecessary and unacceptable hate against one particular religion. You are entitled to your opinions as I am to mine. As long as we don’t try and stuff our beliefs down other people’s throats, it’s fine. And yes, my blog is certainly more hot-headed than Nita’s. Her tone is journalistic and objective to a fault. Mine is personal and passionate. I don’t need to be apologetic about that. I admire Nita’s for the way she writes, but can never hope to match that objectivity.

  • to add a point to what i said:
    recently while travelling in a bus from a place called kodungallur in kerala to another place called guruvayur in a ksrtc bus i came upon a muslim husband/wife (i think so!) pair. the lady was sitting in the last seat, had a burkha but her face and head were uncovered. the lady (almost a girl) got a harsh reprimand from her cohort (a middle aged guy) who openly reprimanded her in the bus for uncovering her face. the woman ignored him once. at the next stop they got down and the first thing this guy did out of muslim fanatical rage was to shove the woman down, then he pulled her up and forcibly covered her face while going ‘ka-ka’ all the while at her!

    i cannot imagine such a scene happening between me and my wife, when finally we are forced to take the islamic route all because hindus are such fools that they do not know what is good for themselves to be preserved!

    So, according to you, only Muslims abuse their wives? Maybe your wife and you are exceptions. And what about what the “hindus” themselves want? As far as you guys are concerned, choice is not in the dictionary is there? You will never get it. It’s about freedom and choice, not about which religion is right or wrong.

  • [What I object to is the unnecessary and unacceptable hate against one particular religion.]

    amrutha…

    how do i use italics to highlight? is it there on your key-board?

    Use the ” /em tag” to insert italics in your comment. It’s a usual HTML tag.

    commenting in reply to the one within brackets, let me ask you a few questions:

    i guess you are a hindu? i suppose so.

    My religion shouldn’t matter.But, since you ask, yes. I am a Hindu, but not of the Hindutva kind. I am a liberal, moderate and thinking Hindu

    1. do you agree that hinduism is a dying religion in india currently?

    No. I don’t believe Hinduism is disappearing. It has survived over 5000 years, and can still stand the onslaught of anything else. If it has survived, it’s because if its tolerant nature.

    2. do you agree that hinduism never had a history of being an aggressor but was a religion which was always aggressed upon?

    Yes, I do. But, that’s history. One wrong cannot be righted with another wrong. That’s what I am trying to say.

    3. do you agree that both islam and christianity (especially christianity) is growing in india?

    I must look at statistics to be able to comment on that one. Even if they are, so what? Are you jealous of the growth?

    4. do you agree that these abrahamic faiths are spreading false and baseless stories about hinduism?

    Again, the answer would depend on how you look at things. Yes, some people are lured by money or other inducements and decide to convert. Hindus are not paragons of virtue either. The fault lies on both sides.

    5. do you also agree that the growth of hindutva wadis has taken root from such methods of conversions?

    Conversions have nothing to do with it. It’s not about religion. It’s about power and how these people choose to exercise it.

    6. can you cite examples of hinduism engaging in the same dirty tricks that christianity is doing to hinduism? (do not give me examples of re-conversions)

    Ha! Reconversions indeed! Want to know? My colleague was forced to convert from the Christian faith and change her name because the Arya Samaj refused to get her married to a Hindu otherwise. That’s justifiable?

    7. do you agree that hinduism is now a minority in states it was a majority before?

    Again, look at the statistics. I don’t know. But, statistical interpretation is a different issue.

    8. do you also know that wherever it has been reduced as a minority both christians and muslims who are in majority are making the life of these hindus difficult?

    Like Hindus made THEIR lives difficult for over 500 years? I personally know people who have been denied houses on rent because they are Muslim. That kind of discrimination is ok?

    9. do you want to remain in a free india?

    Yes. Free from the likes of the Bajrang Dal and the Sri Ram Sena.

    10. do you think your life would be better if you converted to islam or christianity?

    Conversions are an individual’s choice. The reason I am speaking out against the Mangalore attacks is that I believe Hinduism as a religion is grossly misunderstood and misinterpreted.

  • [So, according to you, only Muslims abuse their wives?]

    you missed the point i was trying to make! in kerala, which hitherto had seen decent public behavior, is now suddenly seeing indecent expose of religious might! (a new kind of a threat). someone is deliberately trying to bring in saudi arabia into kerala and india. kerala is now a haven of islamic terrorists (or didn’t you know that?). it is only the rss which is constantly keeping these guys under check.

    Just WHO is the RSS to keep things in check? You think it’s more legitimate than the government?

    a muslim is more of a muslim and a christian is more of a christian, ever bowing to fatwas of one kind or another and there is no big/small/high/low in that. one word and all your friends would turn against you as one.

    That shows you have no REAL friends. Friends are those who will stay with you come hell or high water.

    it is only the ever-free hindu who has no oneness with the faith or with their own kinds. hindus think they are noble souls. yes…but then they also pay a price for that ultimately. the loss of their identity and freedom to those who are abrahamic. because…islam and christianity preach hatred for others…hinduism preaches oneness of everything. but thinking that you are one need not necessarily mean that you have to be an idiot and leave your flanks open and ungaurded on all fronts so that the others can come and attack you at will!

    the mangalore pub attack was a fitting reply to islamic forces who were mis-using the hindu freedom and doing things to the hindus. it is also a warning to christians. there would be more such incidents on a larger scale in india.

    Are you threatening goondaism? It’s not easy to scare a billion people. Remember that.

    ultimately no one cares what two computer totting idiots must think in their exchanges. the upper crust pub going gentry do not matter. they can always serve as an example and be made examples of. the message has gone. ram sene is popular. middle and lower middle class votes are for them. they do not want their children to follow wanton ways. in a democracy what the majority thinks matters.

    You are under-estimating the power of democracy. The “people” you are talking of are not stupid. And ultimately, whether I matter or not, I will continue to speak out against what I think is wrong. Yesterday was Valentine’s Day. What could your Ram Sena do?

  • hmm, according to my little research i have found out that a lot of males (of Hindu community) have started to understand the evil of some muslim fundamentalists (brainwashed by osamas) who are hell bent on Islamization of India by terror, some of the christian conversions and provocations (joshua project etc) and the biased english news channels like ndtv, cnn-ibn (for your kindest of info all these channels are funded from foreign business outfits!) which provide one-sided stories to suit their masters. Just becoz the anchors look smart and speak good english doesnt mean that they always tell you the truth! I find that a lot of Hindu girls somehow have been taking all that comes in the media as granted, please for heaven’s sake read both sides of the story and come to a judgement. like you all of us have been and are secular but when there is something fishy going on against the religion, we better be careful in understanding the truth rather than jumping to a conclusion straightaway. there is no smoke without fire. the taliban is just a few kms away and probably you are probably not aware of the thousands of illegal immigrants coming from the bangladeshi side and infiltrating into our otherwise normal secular society. BTW I am no Hindu fanatic as you would like to call but let me tell you we are and always will be good friends of all the secular muslims, christians, sikhs or anyone. We are going to face a testing period in the coming days and we got to remain united against the anti-nationalists.

  • Amrutha, thanks for your great blog.

    I am not sure all those fanatics who went about assaulting those poor girls in Mangalore have any clue about Vedas or 13 principal Upanishads. Little they know about “Kama Sutra” or “Tantras” and still they project themselves of defenders of Hinduism, which need no protection at all.

    Hinduism [ HINDU CULTURE ] withstood all kind of persecutions and attacks for centuries and still standing tall in the world.

    We already have a problem of young Hindus shying away from Hinduism thinking it is very complex and some what dogmatic.

    These kind of acts from fanatics who have nothing to do with Hinduism will only make matters worse. Little they know the fact that the most important aspect of Hinduism is FREEDOM OF THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS.

    Even an atheist has the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to condemn Hinduism in the public and still proudly proclaim he or she is a Hindu.

    Voltaire in Essay on Tolerance wrote: “I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death, your right to say it.”

    Hinduism is the symbolic representation of what Voltaire wrote. So sad that fanatics do not understand that fact.

  • I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first

    comment. I don’t know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep

    visiting this blog very often.

    Alessandra

    http://www.craigslistpostingonline.info

  • aaahh !!! My head was hurting reading that last big crap.. sorry, comment by Deepak Kamat. I agree with the comments that followed.. forget it. He’s a fanatic and a cyber-goon. If he’s the future of Hinduism, well, India’s screwed.
    For me, Mangalore was personal. I don’t know if you knew Mangalore from 2000, but it was a beautiful place where Hindus, Muslims and Christians all lived peacefully and shared each others festivals with joy. I used to be able to tell ppl ‘look at your useless metros fighting to prove religious supremacy. ‘My’ Mangalore is so free of such worries. Sadly, now, I can only stand ashamed of how badly things have gone.
    At the risk of adding a political comment, all this started after the damn fanatics took over Karnataka… if you ask me, its fine ( expected ? ) that politicians will steal cash, but this violence in name of religion is a terrible and sadly effective new trend that this nation has started sporting..
    Anyway, just wanted to give my two pence on the topic…
    http://godyears.blogspot.com/2009/01/live-free-or-die-hard.html

  • [...] Amrutha for “My upbringing in a Hindu mission school taught me to respect others’ faiths and beliefs and not try to convert. My conscience taught me believe in the inherent freedom of the individual to do what he/she deems right. My study of women’s studies taught me that women are disadvantaged. My sense of justice taught me to fight for that equality in reality.” [...]

  • Amrutha,
    Are you married or single.
    How often you visit pubs and in which city.You have fun in what sense..in pubs?..
    Do you keep your parents informed when you goto pub..?
    Do you make it overnight or .. just only for an evening…

    It’s none of your business whether I am married or single. Also, I don’t need to answer any of your questions, because no matter WHAT I do, I shouldn’t be beaten up by some random goondas. Even if I were fucking around, I shouldn’t be molested or raped. Why is it so difficult for you guys to get that?

  • Well i never leave or let my girl to be beaten up by any goonda when i goto Pub..She will be in safe hands.Okay my flight to chennai is anounced & ready.Bye.

  • Today there is not a single place where the girls mind is without fear. But if we know how to tackle with the problems we can easily roam about here and there without any fear. One of the most biggest issue now a days is “SEXUAL HARASSMENT”. Pria’s website helped me a lot by its instructions, we can get a wast knowledge about sexual harassment which will help us to deal easily with this problem…..

  • Panduranga Acharya wrote:

    Issue of Mangalore Pub and Hinduism debate is wrong mixture. Women Molestation & protection of women are question and answer. I could not see any point from the debate between Amrutha-Deepak and Amrutha-Vasudev. All you guy are at some point correct but I think this Mangalore Issue is got more importance only to target Hinduism. But However I am Happy all you guys are proud to be Hindu, me too.

    Have a look @ this link: Rock shows not for women/TOI/Bangalore Times/Page 1/05.05.2011

    http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Daily/skins/TOINEW/navigator.asp?Daily=TOICH&showST=true&login=default&pub=TOI&AW=1304593324125

  • People seem to be confusing 2 different issues.that of Public safety for women & protection from/for religious propaganda/conversion.If these issues are read together,we have people like Kamat & others.Kamat seems very sick & need Psychiatric help for being abusive on the net. Others were more polite,but still they mixed these issues.Why do men think they can control women,her body ,& her mind? God only knows.
    This is not to say that cases of love Jihad are not happening;thats a different issue & comes under Trafficking of women.& needs to be dealt with as such.Falling to persuasion is equally applicable to both sexes,not exclusive to women.[regardless of age,too] Why should the weakness of some members of society be generalised on everyone else?

  • Amrutha wrote:

    Believe me…much as I am trying to be immune to name-calling, I find the words on his site (recent..abt 5 days ago) very hard to digest. I can block him on my site, but can’t stop him from questioning my character and slandering me on HIS site, can I? Distressing, this!

  • Brijesh Patel wrote:

    man this is one stupid article. yes hinduism does teach to condone violence to protect virtue. and our culture is our virtue and this pub thing and everything is western sin. so i think some “hooligan” does have right to “save” some educated yet stupid woman like you. BTW your sense of justice is Bullshit. yes I also believe in love peace harmoney toelerence but not when my religion is being attacked. yes women are equal to man and they have understanding but these christians and muslims will find everyway to get a hindu girl. You won’t even know it and you will be converted and will be marrying some non hindu guy. Now see people like me are tolerent of other religion but that is with exception of christianity and islam. they dont deserve tolerence. BTW that magalore pub attack was an attempt to save our own culture. See i dont bleieve in pubs. I think neither man nor woman should drink. and i think that will be all. with all due respect, i hope you understand my point. thanx

Leave a Reply

Your email is never shared.Required fields are marked *